NDAO-0000 burn unused treasury funds

The on-chain treasury is not yet activated, however we can start to consider how to implement it.

One axiom that is always fresh in my mind is “allocation of resources can destroy decentralized organizations”. In my mind, the number one priority, above all else in regard to the on-chain treasury, is avoiding this circumstance.

Additionally, if we allow on-chain treasury funds to accumulate, it will become a honeypot for hijacking governance. Therefore, we must limit the accumulation of funds in the treasury.

What we can do

The idea I have been considering lately is treasury disbursals with issuance. Treasury recipients queue up, and as treasury CKB is issued, it goes straight to recipients (or is placed in a cell they can claim from) until their proposal has been paid out. If no recipients have been approved through governance to receive CKB at that block (maybe epoch is better), the CKB is not issued.

This process will incentivize DAO voters to collaborate to approve proposals, rather than fighting over an ever-growing on-chain pot of CKB. If there are no viable proposals, the CKB isn’t issued and all holders effectively win through reduced issuance.

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For anybody who may have trouble discerning the context of this discussion:

  1. Here we are discussing CKB Treasury, a component of CKB secondary issuance.
  2. As long as the treasury is not activated through hard fork these CKBytes are burned (quote from that @Alejandro.bit’s article).
  3. At the moment, CKB Treasury and Community DAO are two completely separated concepts, Community DAO funds were donated by eminent contributors.

Over time governance hijacking could become a very real threat, so I fully support to set in stone this CKB Treasury Meta-Rule.

By any chance, is there any reference implementation to take a peek at?

I’m especially referring to historical materials that were produced around the time of the Nervos Genesis Block and Whitepaper.

Love & Peace, Phroi

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no reference implementation, this is completely new territory. I don’t know quite how to accomplish all of this but I have thought about it before, it is getting to be time to get to work though :cowboy_hat_face:

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Thank you, Matt, for initiating this incredibly important discussion. The proposal for a “disbursal with issuance” treasury mechanism might be a truly practical approach to one of the most persistent challenges in decentralized governance.

Since this is “completely new territory” with “no reference implementation,” I thought it might be valuable to explore the mechanics of this proposal through a more formal lens. I’ve attempted to use a simplified game theory model to analyze its potential impacts.

Please note, this is just a preliminary and simplified analysis intended to provide a theoretical framework and spark further, more detailed research. The real world is far more complex, but I hope this model can serve as a useful starting point.

The Framework: Modeling Participant Behavior

To analyze any economic system, we need to understand how rational actors behave within it. Let’s define a simple model with two key participants:

  • The Proposer (P): A developer or team seeking funds for a project.
  • The Representative Voter (V): An abstraction for any CKB holder who votes. We assume their goal is to maximize the long-term value of their holdings (as the economic man hypothesis).

And some core variables:

  • V_e: The intrinsic value of the Nervos ecosystem (tech, community, network effects).
  • S: The total supply of CKB.
  • P_{ckb}: The price of CKB, which we can model as being proportional to ecosystem value and inversely proportional to supply. For simplicity: P_{ckb} = \alpha \frac{V_e}{S} (where α is a market sentiment factor).
  • C_v: The cost (time, effort) for a voter to research and cast a vote.
  • \Delta V_e: The value a given proposal is expected to add to the ecosystem. A great proposal has a high \Delta V_e > 0, while a low-quality or rent-seeking proposal has \Delta V_e \le 0.
  • I_{treasury}: The maximum CKB available from the treasury in a given issuance cycle.

Model 1: The Traditional Accumulation Treasury

First, let’s model the default scenario: a treasury that accumulates funds over time. In this model, the secondary issuance (I_{sec}) happens regardless of governance outcomes. If no proposals are approved, the funds simply pile up.

A Voter’s Utility Calculation:
When deciding to vote ‘Yes’ on a proposal, a rational voter assesses their expected change in utility. Their calculation looks like this:

Equilibrium Analysis & The Inherent Flaw:
This model leads to a predictable and dangerous equilibrium:

  1. Voter Apathy as a Dominant Strategy: If a proposal is bad (\Delta V_e \le 0), a voter has no direct incentive to spend C_v to vote ‘No’. They only avoid a loss, which feels less compelling. If they are unsure about the proposal, or believe their single vote won’t matter, the most rational choice is to do nothing and save the cost C_v.
  2. The Perfect Environment for Rent-Seeking: Because voters are rationally apathetic, a proposer with a bad proposal (\Delta V_e \le 0) only needs to convince a small, concentrated group of voters to pass it. The cost of the bad decision (a less valuable ecosystem) is socialized across all holders, while the profit is privatized by the proposer. The large, accumulating pot of CKB becomes a massive honeypot that incentivizes this exact behavior, as you mentioned.

Model 2: Disbursal with Issuance Treasury

Now, let’s analyze the burn unused model. The game changes completely because the total supply, S, is no longer a fixed outcome. It becomes an endogenous variable—its change depends directly on the result of the vote.

A Voter’s New Utility Calculation:

  • If the proposal passes (Vote Yes): The ecosystem gains value \Delta V_e, but the total supply also inflates by I_{treasury}.

  • If the proposal fails (Vote No or Be Apathetic): The ecosystem value is unchanged, but critically, the total supply also remains unchanged. The CKB that would have gone to the treasury is never issued. This creates a deflationary pressure relative to the alternative.

Equilibrium Analysis: Why This Mechanism is Effective

A rational voter will now only vote ‘Yes’ if the utility of doing so is greater than the utility of inaction. That is, if \Delta U_V(\text{Yes}) > 0. This gives us the core decision inequality:

This single formula beautifully demonstrates the elegance of your proposal:

  1. It Inherently Kills Rent-Seeking: Look what happens if a proposal is rent-seeking (\Delta V_e \le 0). The term in the parenthesis will be negative. No rational CKB holder, not even a whale, would vote to simultaneously decrease the ecosystem’s value AND inflate their own holdings. It aligns incentives perfectly and makes such proposals economically irrational to support.
  2. It Breaks Apathy for Good Proposals: Voters are no longer just voting on a proposal; they are choosing between two distinct economic futures: a) a slightly more inflationary with more ecosystem value, or b) a less inflationary with stagnant ecosystem value. This forces a clear economic trade-off, providing a powerful incentive to overcome the cost of voting (C_v) for proposals with a genuinely high \Delta V_e.

The Hidden Risk: The “Deflationary Trap” Equilibrium

However, this model doesn’t fully eliminate risk—it transforms it. The new risk is not the misuse of funds, but the absence of their use.

Consider the decision inequality again. What if the community struggles to produce or identify proposals where the expected value (\Delta V_e) is high enough to overcome the perceived cost of inflation and the effort of voting (C_v)?

In this scenario, the rational choice for voters would be to consistently do nothing, letting proposals fail. The system would then settle into a “deflationary trap” equilibrium:

  • No proposals are funded.
  • The CKB supply grows at the minimum possible rate.
  • The price of CKB might remain stable or even rise due to this relative scarcity.
  • But the ecosystem itself stagnates. No funding for core development, research, or growth initiatives.

I figure this could be seen as a “pathological” form of deflation born from inactivity, not from a thriving, efficient ecosystem. It also could create a bias against high-risk, high-reward innovative projects whose \Delta V_e is hard to quantify, in favor of the certainty of “no inflation.”

Conclusion

This preliminary analysis suggests your proposal is a powerful solution to the honeypot problem, but its success hinges on avoiding the “deflationary trap.”

My simple model might point toward ways we could further refine this mechanism. Based on the inequality, there are two clear levers we can pull to make the system more robust:

  1. Decrease the Cost of Governance (C_v): The model shows that a high C_v is a direct barrier to action. We could explore mechanisms to lower this cost for active and valuable contributors.
  2. Better Framing of Proposal Value (\Delta V_e): The model treats all proposals as having a single, universal \Delta V_e. In reality, the value of a core protocol upgrade is different from a marketing campaign. Perhaps the treasury could be divided into distinct categories (e.g., Core Infrastructure, Ecosystem Grants, Community Bounties) with different evaluation criteria or even different approval thresholds. This would prevent high-risk, long-term research from being judged by the same short-term metrics as other projects, helping to avoid across-the-board voter conservatism.

In conclusion, your valuable insight is a significant step forward. Thanks again for opening up this vital conversation.

Best,

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Can you please post without using AI? It’s quite difficult to read

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Hi Matt, you’re absolutely right, my apologies. My thought process was, since this is new territory, to try using AI to help me model and analyze it. It’s hard to read, but that wasn’t my intention.

My simple point was:

Your idea is brilliant because it automatically kills bad proposals. It forces everyone to ask, “Is this project so good that it’s worth the inflation for all of us?” Rent-seeking can’t survive that question.

According to the modeling, the only risk I see is that we might become too scared of inflation. If we only approve “perfect” projects, we might vote ‘no’ on everything else, accidentally starving the ecosystem of funds.

That’s it really. It’s a fantastic mechanism, and I was just thinking about how to make sure the good (but might not be perfect) ideas can still get funded.

Best,

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I actually was looking forward to this kind of analysis, thank you @zz_tovarishch for taking your time to delve into this topic with an AI and report it for us :hugs:

The second part tho ( The Hidden Risk: The “Deflationary Trap” Equilibrium) seems a bit of a second thought without the same level of analysis.

We are still talking about small percentages here:

  • Inflation rate from secondary emission currently accounts for ~2% annual inflation.
  • From here will only go lower in percentage, for ex. in five years will be around 1.75%.
  • Treasury could be anything in 10% - 15% of secondary emissions.
  • Even at full throttle, Treasury emissions (worst case scenario)would be less than 15% of 2% = 0.3%.

TLDR: Worst case additional 0.3% annualized inflation doesn’t seem high enough to lead users to choose zero dilution respectfully to a project potential utility.

Side Note: Historically, fiat currencies tend to roughly double in supply about every decade. Still, many of us cling to cash (sometimes literally tucking it under the mattress) instead of putting it in an interest-bearing bank account.

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appreciate you understanding where I’m coming from :slightly_smiling_face:

I’d hope that people wouldn’t think about it from an inflation perspective. I think the treasury is there for maintenance, the needs hopefully would be clear.

You raise a good concern, I mention the inflation thing for logical completeness but I’ll avoid mentioning it in the future.

I think like Bitcoin or Ethereum the majority of the work “on” CKB would be driven by private interests and the treasury is there to ensure that CKB never gets neglected.

Personally I don’t think the treasury is a good fit for marketing or funding commercial ecosystem efforts

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Hey Phroi, thank you for running the numbers. You are absolutely right: on purely mathematical grounds, an 0.3% inflation is trivial and shouldn’t deter anyone from approving a valuable proposal.

I figure my goal was trying to capture less about the number and more about the psychology of the option.

In the old one, inflation happens anyway, let’s make sure the money is well spent. In Matt proposed, the default becomes zero inflation (the baseline), and any proposal must prove it’s worth actively turning the money printer on for.

I agree that for a proposal with clear, obvious utility (like a critical security patch), the 0.3% inflation is an easy “yes.” But for more experimental, high-risk/high-reward projects where the utility is debatable, the safe option of choosing zero inflation might become very tempting.

So, you’re right that the trap isn’t as deep as I might have made it sound, but I figure the psychological shift is real and might affect how we fund different types of proposals.

Thanks again!

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Thanks, Matt. Your clarification on the treasury’s scope is the key. Focusing on core maintenance perfectly solves the “deflationary trap” risk I was worried about. I believe that when the goal is clear, the community wouldn’t be overly conservative.

This makes me think the solution needs two parts: the technical mechanism you proposed, plus a clear, community-agreed consensus on its mandate.

With the treasury activation in the near future, perhaps this is the right moment to begin discussing these two tracks: one for the technical implementations, and another for the community to review and reaffirm the treasury’s role as envisioned in the whitepaper.

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Hey @chenyukang and @xjd, thanks for keeping the treasury economic model caveat explicit in the ZK voting PoC.

PoC path: Reviewing the PoC from the ZK voting PoC, I understand the current solution as a Community Fund DAO v1.0-style budget request path: a proposal names a receiver and amount, voters cast votes, a ZK proof proves the result, and the treasury lock releases CKB to the receiver.

Underlying assumption: CKB has already accumulated in the treasury, and keeps accumulating indefinitely. A passed vote releases part of that pot to the approved recipient and keeps the rest in the treasury.

Spec framing: The treasury lock spec frames this as a demo, not the finalized treasury economic model:

The economic model is still under discussion, so this lock script is subject to change. The current implementation is a demo and proof of concept.

Burn-unused framing: Conversely this thread proposes a different flow: do not let a large treasury pot build up on-chain. When new treasury CKB would be created, first check whether governance has approved someone to receive it. If yes, the new CKB goes directly to the approved recipient, or to a cell they can claim from. If not, it is not created.

For that reason, I would separate the vote proof from payout policy. The ZK proof verifies the vote window, counted weight, and tally. The treasury design decides what a passed vote can do.

A demo that pays from an accumulated pool models the honeypot side of this tradeoff. My concern is not the ZK proof; it is a technical demo becoming an economic default while the treasury model is still being discussed.

What benefit of treasury accumulation can possibly outweigh those two risks?

Love & Peace, Phroi

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Brilliant suggestion. For proposals that have been approved, use one or more cells—for example, in the case of installment payments. This also allows for flexibility in the event of delays, but it requires frequent interaction in a sensitive area.

Regarding the DAO’s anti‑dilution, was I mistaken in assuming that when the DAO fund distribution is activated, the DAO investors’ compensation increases proportionally? So, with a full distribution/activation of the fund issuance, would DAO investors receive a correspondingly higher percentage for their fixed investment? Because a higher percentage would certainly cause many Proof-of-Stake chain investors to defect to Nervos. Imagine the following headline: “Nervos increases APY to 6–8%!” Welcome, dear Ethereum and Cardano defectors. :teapot::teacup_without_handle:

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DAO depositors’ rates would remain the same, you can refer to the “burned” proportion here, it is this portion of the issuance that’s being referred to (for clarity these burned CKB will never be issued, treasury is for issuance from future blocks)

https://explorer.nervos.org/nervosdao

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In that case, we would need to adjust the anti‑dilution so that the percentage of anti-inflationary depositor compensation increases accordingly as soon as the burning is converted to a distribution.

secondary issuance is described in this section of the positioning paper

this section lists the issuance schedule as one of the 3 invariants of CKB

So it would be a smart contract that ensures that a portion of the NDAO distribution—which was burned in the early years—is distributed to DAO-lockers for Offsetting Inflation.

Depending on the burn conditions, this could be an either/or decision: either the funds are distributed to the cell of a project currently in need of funding, or they are distributed proportionally to a cell comprising all currently DAO-locked cells. In periods when there are no projects to fund, the distribution then goes to the by DAO investors claimable cell. Without additional interaction, withdrawal transactions would automatically set the timeframe from DAO investment to DAO withdrawal, with the proportion determining the amount for the respective payout.

Unused amounts would no longer be burned but would instead be distributed proportionally to all DAO fixed investors.

Unfortunately the complexity of doing this is unreasonable and it changes the existing tokenomics beyond what was described in the positioning paper.

Burning the CKB benefits all CKB holders, including DAO depositors.

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Please excuse me, but I’d like to address this again because I believe the disadvantages of not burning tokens are being overestimated, and the additional incentive for DAO investments is being underestimated.

When the “no longer burn” rule is implemented, something in the original document changes anyway—namely, that this portion of the distribution is currently being burned. “No longer burning” means distributing, so the content of the original document would no longer be correct anyway. Besides, wouldn’t it then no longer be possible to call this a hedge against inflation?

All DAO-locked cells are known. If we now assign a weight in points to each of these cells, we can distribute the funds fairly among all DAO deposits at the time of the unlock/payout transaction. For example, one point per epoch during which the DAO cell existed, multiplied by the amount in that cell. 10,000 ckb over 100 epochs equals 1,000,000 points. This must now be put into perspective relative to all remaining DAO cell points. In other words, divide the points of all cells existing at that time by the points of the cell to be paid out to know the respective weight. Payout transactions occurring in the same epoch would be treated proportionally the same.

This sounds feasible, but implementation would need to be well thought out and tested. Cell weight points and their distribution could be displayed/calculated at any time.

It would serve as an additional incentive for DAO investment. The most common non-DAO investors are likely exchanges, which always require immediate liquidity.

AI - numerical example:

Cell A: 10,000 CKB, 100 epochs → P_A = 10,000 * 100 = 1,000,000

Cell B: 5,000 CKB, 50 epochs → P_B = 5,000 * 50 = 250,000

Cell C: 20,000 CKB, 10 epochs → P_C = 20,000 * 10 = 200,000

P_total = 1,450,000

total_distributable_amount = 14,500 CKB

Payout A = (1,000,000 / 1,450,000) * 14,500 = 10,000 CKB

Payout B = (250,000 / 1,450,000) * 14,500 = 2,500 CKB

Payout C = (200,000 / 1,450,000) * 14,500 = 2,000 CKB

the same proportion of secondary issuance is distributed to DAO depositors, what is described in the positioning paper doesn’t change. The proportion to total issuance changes, but this is the system as it has been described for the entirety of the time CKB has been live.

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Your question is important and I think it touches a misunderstanding that deserves clarification.

TLDR; I agree that DAO depositors’ interests should be protected. But I believe they are already protected by the Nervos DAO mechanism under the normal full-secondary-issuance assumption. Redirecting unused Treasury funds to DAO depositors would go beyond protection and become an additional subsidy. That would distort governance incentives and weaken the purpose of the Treasury.


My view is that unused Treasury funds should not be redirected to Nervos DAO depositors, because it would change the meaning of both Nervos DAO and the Treasury.

Nervos DAO was designed under the assumption that all secondary issuance is issued normally. It does not depend on Treasury burn to protect DAO depositors. Even if the Treasury portion of secondary issuance were fully issued and used, DAO depositors would still not be diluted by secondary issuance, because the Nervos DAO compensation mechanism was designed to offset secondary issuance for DAO depositors under that normal issuance model.

The current Treasury burn is therefore not part of the fundamental Nervos DAO design. It is an additional conservative choice made because decentralized governance was not ready in the early stage of the network. Since there was no sufficiently mature community governance process to decide how Treasury funds should be used, burning the Treasury portion was the safest default. This burn does have a real effect: it reduces circulating supply compared with full Treasury issuance, and therefore gives all CKB holders some extra benefit. But this extra benefit should be understood as outside the Nervos DAO design, not as something DAO depositors are entitled to receive.

This distinction matters a lot.

Nervos DAO is not a yield product. It is not designed to maximize APY. It is an anti-dilution mechanism for long-term holders. If we redirect unused Treasury funds to DAO depositors, then Nervos DAO would start to become something else: a yield subsidy mechanism. That would create very bad governance incentives.

Under such a model, every Treasury proposal would implicitly compete against DAO depositors’ extra APY:

If a proposal is approved, funds go to public goods.
If a proposal is rejected, funds go to DAO depositors.

This would give DAO depositors a direct financial incentive to reject Treasury spending, even when the spending is valuable for the network. It would turn Treasury governance into a conflict between public goods funding and DAO yield maximization. I think this is dangerous.

It would also create the wrong narrative for CKB. I understand why a higher DAO APY may sound attractive from a market perspective. It could look good to investors who are used to PoS staking yields. But CKB should not compete with PoS chains on yield. Nervos DAO’s strongest narrative is not “high APY”; it is:

Long-term CKB holders can avoid dilution from secondary issuance by locking in Nervos DAO.

The Treasury has a different purpose. It exists to provide sustainable support for the most essential public goods of the CKB network: core protocol maintenance, protocol research, client development, security work, infrastructure, and other work that is crucial to the long-term survival of the chain but may not have a direct business model.

This is actually one of the biggest unsolved problems in Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Bitcoin has never formed strong consensus around community governance, and it also has no native, sustainable funding source for public goods. Ethereum has spent a lot of time exploring governance and coordination, but it still largely relies on the Ethereum Foundation and related institutions for public goods funding. That dependence increases the ecosystem’s reliance on the Ethereum Foundation.

CKB is in a different position. The protocol already has a built-in funding source for public goods through the Treasury portion of secondary issuance. This is a very strong foundation. The missing piece is not the source of funding itself, but a governance mechanism that the community broadly recognizes as legitimate, decentralized, and hard to abuse.

This distinction is important. Public goods do not become sustainable simply because a community has good intentions. They require a reliable economic source that does not depend on donations, foundations, charismatic leaders, or temporary market cycles. Without economic sustainability, “decentralized governance” often becomes dependent governance in practice: dependent on a foundation, dependent on a few large donors, or dependent on whichever group happens to have resources at a given moment.

In this sense, economic sustainability is essential to the “Autonomous” part of DAO. A DAO cannot be truly autonomous if it has no native way to fund the public goods required for its own survival. What CKB still needs is a governance process that can activate and use this funding source without turning it into a rent-seeking machine. If the community can build such a mechanism — legitimate, decentralized, transparent, and resistant to capture — then CKB may have the potential to grow into one of the first truly autonomous DAOs: a decentralized network that not only governs itself, but also sustainably funds the public goods necessary for its long-term existence.


ps.

I strongly suggest the CKB community to view CKB issuance the same way as Bitcoin’s—deterministic, predictable, and effectively immutable. By “effectively immutable” I mean it should only ever change if the alternative is CKB’s demise.

This is not a dogmatic belief. It is an assumption repeatedly supported by history. A fixed issuance schedule provides the highest degree of certainty to all market participants. It gives holders, miners, developers, investors, and builders a stable reference point for valuation, planning, and long-term commitment.

More importantly, changing issuance does not only change numbers. It changes the mindset and culture of the community. Once issuance becomes a normal governance topic, people can easily become excited about whether to increase issuance by 1% or 0.5%, how to redistribute it, or which group should receive more. But this kind of discussion can distract the community from the more fundamental question: whether opening the door to issuance changes is actually beneficial to the ecosystem at all.

The damage is therefore not only economic, but also cultural. It shifts the community from building under hard constraints to debating how to relax those constraints. For CKB, I think issuance predictability should be treated as a core social invariant, not merely a configurable parameter in the protocol.

And because this invariant is ultimately protected by community consensus, not by code alone, it is especially important that the community has a correct understanding of CKB issuance, secondary issuance, Nervos DAO, and the Treasury. Code can implement the current rules, but only community consensus can decide that these rules remain legitimate and should not be changed.

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