[DIS] Rosen Bridge - Connecting CKB to Cardano, Ergo, and Beyond

Armeanio · December 17, 2024, 6:40pm

Summary

This proposal is submitted to the Community Fund DAO, with a recommendation from Nervos Nation, to request grant funding for Rosen Bridge to integrate Nervos CKB as a supported platform.

ETA to Completion: Q2 2025

Grant Amount: $80,000 USD (CKB price: $0.01333; CKB requested: 6,001,500)

CKB Address (Rosen Bridge team wallet): TBD After Completion of Milestone 1

Introduction

Rosen Bridge is a bi-directional cross-chain decentralized asset bridge with a modern design and new security model. Unlike traditional bridges, Rosen Bridge employs a multi-layered security approach that minimizes smart contract exposure and enhances safety through the use of off-chain verification. The protocol relies on a Proof of Event scheme, using two layers of redundant incentivized security roles known as Watchers and Guards. This design mitigates the security risks that have plagued previous bridges and provides a seamless experience for transferring assets across multiple blockchain networks.

Current Status

Rosen Bridge is currently live on mainnet and operating in a fully decentralized state.

A third-party audit was completed in May of 2024. Rosen Bridge currently connects Cardano, Ergo, Ethereum, and Bitcoin, with a goal of eventually connecting all UTXO Alliance chains.

More information, including our roadmap, can be found on the Rosen Bridge website.

Rosen Bridge Leadership Team

Rosen Bridge’s team consists of over 10 experienced industry professionals and developers from around the world. The leadership team includes:

Mohammad Hasan Samadani (Core Team): Lead developer for the Rosen Bridge project and ErgoRaflle. Holds a PhD in computer science and has over 16 years of experience in security, software development, and team management. Designed various applications for the Ergo ecosystem.
Joseph Armeanio (Core Team): Currently a Board Member of the Ergo Foundation. Founding project/member of the UTXO Alliance. Involved in the development of Nautilus Wallet, Lithos Protocol, Machina Finance, and is involved in the Ergo Development DAO.
Dan Friedman (Advisor): Dan is a seasoned technologist and was part of the founding team that launched the Cardano blockchain. He is also a strategic advisor for the Ergo Foundation and the CEO of ZenGate, which is the developer of the Palmyra RWA trading and lending platform.
Alexander Chepurnoy (Technical Advisor): Co-founder of the Ergo Blockchain and smartcontract.com (now Chainlink). One of the first employees at IOHK, as a researcher fellow and manager for the Scorex Project. Active in blockchain since 2011 and has 20+ academic papers contributed to the industry.

Key Benefits for Nervos

Rosen Bridge offers many benefits to the Nervos ecosystem:

First Decentralized Bridge on Nervos: Rosen Bridge will be the first bridge connected to Nervos CKB that has achieved full decentralization. This aligns with the core values of Nervos Network to better provide resilient, permissionless, and censorship-resistant options for users.
Bi-Directional Asset Transfer: Rosen Bridge is a bi-directional bridge that enables assets from remote chains to flow to Nervos, but it also allows Nervos assets to flow to the connected destination chains; something which is not currently possible. This means assets like CKB, iCKB, and SEAL will be tradable on destination chains in markets such as Uniswap, creating additional demand.
Lower Cost Market Access: The ability for Nervos assets to be used on connected destination chains also means that Nervos assets will be able to take advantage of existing token integrations for CEX/DEX platforms at much lower cost. Integration of Nervos’ native token standards (XUDT) would cost upwards of $200k on some CEX platforms. Nervos project tokens can be integrated on these platforms via Rosen Bridge, using wrapped tokens under the ERC20 (Ethereum) or CNT (Cardano) standards, which have already been integrated.
Synergy with DeFi Initiatives: Rosen Bridge will open new liquidity pathways that complement existing DeFi initiatives and projects. Existing DEX markets will gain exposure to more assets and potentially more volume as Nervos’ low transaction fees help foster more compelling use cases.
Market-Making Initiatives: Rosen Bridge’s integration will allow Nervos to take part in cross-chain market-making initiatives. Hummingbot is an open-source market-making bot that is being created to increase market efficiency and liquidity within connected UTXO chains.
Increase Ecosystem Exposure: Rosen Bridge will bring Nervos closer to a broader ecosystem of UTXO-based dApps and services. This creates a more compelling environment for UTXO-based dApps to build on Nervos since there is infrastructure in place to help them succeed.

Incentivized Participation with Watchers and Guards

Rosen Bridge’s security model employs two layers of incentivized security roles: Watchers and Guards, ensuring redundant protection. Watchers operate under a permissionless staking mechanism, while Guards form a federated set. They work independently with overlapping responsibilities to provide an additional layer of protection, safeguarding the integrity of cross-chain transfers while earning income through bridge fees.

Members of the Nervos Community can participate as Watchers, earning rewards for securing the bridge. By staking $RSN tokens and running the Watcher software, community members can actively contribute to validating bridge transactions on Nervos while passively generating income. This strengthens not only the security of Rosen Bridge but also fosters the resilience and growth of all connected ecosystems.

As the primary English-speaking CKB community with strong ties to the UTXO Alliance, Nervos Nation will play a key role in Rosen Bridge’s CKB integration by assuming the position of a Guard within the federated Guard set. Initially, a single Guard slot will be available, requiring high operational standards and close collaboration with the Rosen Bridge team for the rollout and operation. In the future, additional Guard slots may be introduced, with governance processes determining which other teams in the Nervos ecosystem are qualified to take on this critical role in transaction validation.

Budget & Milestones

Rosen Bridge is requesting a $80k grant to support the integration of Nervos CKB into the bridge and cover the ongoing maintenance as new features are rolled out across all supported platforms. A $10k initial payment is requested upon approval, with the remaining funds to be released in equal installments after each milestone is completed.

Milestone 1: Technical Assessment and Development Plan

A preliminary technical review has already been completed to ensure that Rosen Bridge integration is feasible on the Nervos CKB platform. This milestone will involve a deeper investigation of the implementation details to define more detailed integration requirements which will allow us to finalize our implementation plan and timelines.

Milestone 2: Testbed Release

This milestone involves the deployment of the Nervos CKB integration to the Rosen Bridge testbed. This is done using Rosen Bridge’s isolated testing environment and zero-value test tokens on the CKB mainnet. This will allow us to conduct extensive testing of all bridge functionality for the Nervos integration and work with Nervos’ native assets in an isolated identical environment to ensure full compatibility across all connected chains.

Milestone 3: Mainnet Release

The final milestone is deploying the Rosen Bridge integration on the Nervos CKB mainnet. We will conduct final testing at this point and then enable live asset transfers to the public.

Closing

We believe this integration presents a valuable opportunity to benefit all connected UTXO chains, fostering deeper cooperation and driving growth across our ecosystems. By building these connections, we can unlock new possibilities for progress and shared achievement.

We give our sincere thanks to the Nervos Community for your support and thoughtful consideration in advancing these initiatives. Together, within the UTXO Alliance, we will strengthen and expand our ecosystems, creating lasting value and laying the groundwork for future advancements. We look forward to collaborating with Nervos and the broader community on this exciting path forward.

摘要

本提案提交给社区基金DAO，经Nervos Nation推荐，请求拨款支持Rosen Bridge将Nervos CKB整合为支持平台。

完成预计时间： 2025年第二季度

拨款金额： 80,000美元（CKB价格：$0.01333；所需CKB：6,001,500）

CKB地址（Rosen Bridge团队钱包）： 在完成第一阶段里程碑后确定

简介

Rosen Bridge是一个双向跨链去中心化资产桥，采用现代设计和新的安全模型。与传统桥梁不同，Rosen Bridge采用多层安全方法，通过使用链下验证来最小化智能合约的暴露并增强安全性。协议依赖于事件证明方案，使用两层冗余激励的安全角色，即观察者和守卫。这种设计减轻了之前桥梁所面临的安全风险，并为在多个区块链网络间转移资产提供无缝体验。

当前状态

Rosen Bridge目前已在主网上线并以完全去中心化的状态运行。

在2024年5月完成了第三方审计。Rosen Bridge目前连接Cardano、Ergo、Ethereum和Bitcoin，目标是最终连接所有UTXO联盟链。

更多信息，包括我们的路线图，可在Rosen Bridge网站上找到。

Rosen Bridge领导团队

Rosen Bridge的团队由超过10名来自全球的经验丰富的行业专业人士和开发者组成。领导团队包括：

Mohammad Hasan Samadani（核心团队）：Rosen Bridge项目和ErgoRaflle的首席开发者。拥有计算机科学博士学位，拥有16年以上的安全、软件开发和团队管理经验。为Ergo生态系统设计了多种应用。
Joseph Armeanio（核心团队）：目前是Ergo基金会的董事会成员。UTXO联盟的创始项目/成员。参与Nautilus钱包、Lithos协议、Machina Finance的开发，并参与Ergo Development DAO。
Dan Friedman（顾问）：Dan是一位经验丰富的技术专家，是启动Cardano区块链的创始团队成员。他还是Ergo基金会的战略顾问和ZenGate的CEO，后者是Palmyra RWA交易和借贷平台的开发者。
Alexander Chepurnoy（技术顾问）：Ergo区块链的联合创始人和smartcontract.com（现为Chainlink）的联合创始人。曾是IOHK的第一批员工，担任研究员和Scorex项目的经理。自2011年起活跃于区块链领域，贡献了20多篇学术论文。

Nervos的关键优势

Rosen Bridge为Nervos生态系统提供了许多好处：

Nervos上的首个去中心化桥梁： Rosen Bridge将是首个连接到Nervos CKB的完全去中心化的桥梁。这与Nervos网络的核心价值观相符，为用户提供更具弹性、免许可和抗审查的选项。
双向资产转移： Rosen Bridge是一个双向桥梁，允许来自其他链的资产流向Nervos，同时也允许Nervos资产流向连接的目标链，这是当前不具备的功能。这意味着CKB、iCKB和SEAL等资产可以在目标链上的市场如Uniswap进行交易，创造额外需求。
降低市场准入成本： Nervos资产能够在连接的目标链上使用意味着可以利用现有的CEX/DEX平台的代币集成，成本更低。在某些CEX平台上，Nervos原生代币标准（XUDT）的集成费用高达20万美元。通过Rosen Bridge使用包装代币（如Ethereum的ERC20或Cardano的CNT标准），可以在这些平台上集成Nervos项目代币。
与DeFi计划的协同作用： Rosen Bridge将开启新的流动性路径，补充现有的DeFi计划和项目。现有的DEX市场将接触到更多资产，可能会带来更多交易量，因为Nervos的低交易费用有助于促进更多有吸引力的使用案例。
市场制造计划： Rosen Bridge的整合将允许Nervos参与跨链市场制造计划。Hummingbot是一个开源市场制造机器人，旨在提高连接的UTXO链内的市场效率和流动性。
增加生态系统曝光： Rosen Bridge将Nervos带入更广泛的基于UTXO的dApp和服务生态系统。这为基于UTXO的dApp在Nervos上构建创造了更有吸引力的环境，因为已经有基础设施帮助它们成功。

通过观察者和守卫激励参与

Rosen Bridge的安全模型采用两层激励的安全角色：观察者和守卫，确保冗余保护。观察者在无许可的质押机制下运行，而守卫组成一个联邦集合。他们独立工作并责任重叠，提供额外的保护层，保护跨链转移的完整性，同时通过桥梁费用赚取收入。

Nervos社区成员可以作为观察者参与，赚取奖励以保护桥梁。通过质押$RSN代币并运行观察者软件，社区成员可以积极参与验证Nervos上的桥梁交易，同时被动生成收入。这不仅增强了Rosen Bridge的安全性，还促进了所有连接生态系统的韧性和增长。

作为主要的英语社区与UTXO联盟有紧密联系，Nervos Nation将在Rosen Bridge的CKB整合中扮演守卫的关键角色，承担联邦守卫集中的一个位置。最初，只有一个守卫位置可用，要求高操作标准和与Rosen Bridge团队的紧密合作来推出和运营。未来，可能会引入更多守卫位置，通过治理过程来决定Nervos生态系统中有资格承担这一关键交易验证角色的其他团队。

预算与里程碑

Rosen Bridge请求80,000美元的拨款来支持Nervos CKB的整合和覆盖所有支持平台的新功能的持续维护。初始支付10,000美元在批准后，剩余资金将在每个里程碑完成后等额支付。

里程碑1：技术评估和开发计划

已完成初步的技术审查，以确保Rosen Bridge在Nervos CKB平台上的整合是可行的。这一里程碑将涉及对实施细节进行更深入的调查，以定义更详细的整合需求，使我们能够最终确定实施计划和时间表。

里程碑2：测试床发布

这一里程碑涉及将Nervos CKB整合部署到Rosen Bridge的测试床。使用Rosen Bridge的隔离测试环境和CKB主网上的零值测试代币。这将允许我们对Nervos整合的所有桥梁功能进行广泛的测试，并在隔离的相同环境中使用Nervos的原生资产，以确保与所有连接链的完全兼容性。

里程碑3：主网发布

最后的里程碑是将Rosen Bridge的整合部署到Nervos CKB主网。我们将在此时进行最终测试，然后向公众开放资产转移。

结束语

我们相信这一整合为所有连接的UTXO链提供了宝贵的机会，促进更深层次的合作并推动生态系统的增长。通过构建这些连接，我们可以解锁新的进步和共享成就的可能性。

我们对Nervos社区的支持和深思熟虑的考虑表示诚挚的感谢。在UTXO联盟内，我们将一起加强并扩展我们的生态系统，创造持久的价值，并为未来的进步奠定基础。我们期待与Nervos和更广泛的社区在这个激动人心的道路上合作。

Armeanio · December 17, 2024, 6:47pm

This proposal opens the door for CKB and native assets on the CKB Blockchain to access cross chain markets to build liquidity. This lowers the friction of paying exchanges and third parties for access and support.

Here are some comparisons for obscure listings. This is on a token basis and ends up creating a lot of value being pulled out of ecosystems. It is better to use liquidity to create trading depth in my opinion as these costs do not scale well.

Lbank- 40k (split token+ usdt)
Bingx- 40k (split token+ usdt)
Poloniex- 25k
Probit- 25k
Coinw- 15k
Bitmart- 50k
P2B- 15k
Digifinex- 15k
Biture- 15k
Hashkey -20k-50k
Coinstore- 15k
Xt.com -15k
Deepcoin-15 k
Chilliz- 40k

One sidenote here to discuss if this grant is supported is the integration of Hummingbot on the CKB blockchain. This is a powerful open source market making tool that allows for liquidity management across Centralized Exchanges and Decentralized Exchanges.

This is a powerful tool for liquidity, growth for CKB and projects in this ecosystem. While we do not build this integration directly we have a partner who has integrated the Ergo Blockchain, and the Cardano Blockchain into this framework.

It would be wise to consider this in parallel with the Rosen Bridge proposal.

这份提案为CKB区块链上的CBK和原生资产打开了通往跨链市场的大门，以构建流动性。这减少了支付交易所和第三方获取和支持的摩擦。

以下是一些不太知名交易所的上市费用比较。这些费用是以代币为基础的，最终会从生态系统中抽取大量价值。我认为最好使用这些流动性来增加交易深度，因为这些费用无法很好地扩展。

Lbank - 40,000美元（代币+USDT分摊）
Bingx - 40,000美元（代币+USDT分摊）
Poloniex - 25,000美元
Probit - 25,000美元
Coinw - 15,000美元
Bitmart - 50,000美元
P2B - 15,000美元
Digifinex - 15,000美元
Bitrue - 15,000美元
Hashkey - 20,000到50,000美元
Coinstore - 15,000美元
Xt.com - 15,000美元
Deepcoin - 15,000美元
Chilliz - 40,000美元

此外，如果这个拨款得到支持，还需要讨论的一个附带问题是将Hummingbot整合进CKB区块链。Hummingbot是一个强大的开源市场制造工具，允许跨中心化交易所和去中心化交易所进行流动性管理。

这对于CKB和生态系统内的项目来说是一个强大的流动性和增长工具。虽然我们没有直接构建这个整合，但我们有一个合作伙伴已经将Ergo区块链和Cardano区块链整合进了这个框架。

建议在考虑Rosen Bridge提案的同时，也考虑到这一点。

Dondara · December 17, 2024, 8:34pm

Hope this proposal passes and the devs can get to work and make this work! Gotta promise not to sleep until the job is done!

6figs · December 18, 2024, 1:02am

I strongly feel that Rosen Bridge would benefit all ecosystems, particularly Nervos. After looking at the team behind this proposal, it’s clear they are among the most qualified professionals one could hope to assemble for such a task…

crookednervosness · December 18, 2024, 10:35am

This is how you make friends and spread our networks. Something Nervos has always struggled with in the West or even the crypto space. This cost would normally pay for a partnership of very little value or marketing push which would cost money with no end product. With the Rosen bridge we get a product and we open up diversity to the ecosystem, invite communities to learn about us, partner ships with other dexes in other ecosystems and possible listings and liquidity whilst also give outside investors a chance to experiment with us and hopefully give access to our news and updates from time to time. This is what we call ‘community BD’. This is decentralisation, where the community go out and bring these proposals in. Community reach is the movement, relying on foundations to hesitantly give centralised bad decisions is not the best way to grow. A multi faceted approach is better. The community can be an octopus across the space

knmo · December 18, 2024, 2:02pm

I see no reason why Ergo ERG, as a partner of the UTXO Alliance, should not also be able to be sent via Fiber Network FNN FNP. Skepticism towards older technologies should not be seen as derogatory but as constructive. This could be an opportunity for the UTXO partners to be able to send via the Fiber Network in the future. This should be the goal. For Ethereum and Binance Chain connection, Forcebridge.com has been around for a long time, please join the Nervos Fiber network instead, the new technology that will allow offline transactions and transactions within fractions of a second. Eighty thousand dollars should be spent on this.

我認為 Ergo ERG 作為 UTXO 聯盟的合作夥伴，沒有理由不可以透過光纖網路傳送 Fiber FNN FNP。對舊技術的懷疑不應被視為貶損，而應被視為建設性。這可能是UTXO合作夥伴未來能夠透過光纖網路傳送的機會。這應該是我們的目標。對於 Ethereum 和 Binance Chain 連線，Forcebridge.com 已經存在很久了，請改成加入 Nervos 光纖網路，這項新技術將允許離線交易和零點幾秒內的交易。八萬應該用在這方面。

woodbury.bit · December 18, 2024, 3:45pm

Thank you for your proposal. I still have some technical details that I don’t fully understand and would like to ask for clarification:

You mentioned that your “decentralized bridge” operates through off-chain verification. Could you please elaborate on the specific details of this off-chain verification method? Is it centralized or decentralized? If it is decentralized, what technical means are used to achieve this?
Nervos has already implemented a bridge-free solution with RGB++. How does your bridge solution compare to RGB++ in terms of similarities and differences?
Looking forward to your response. Thank you!

感谢你们的提议。我还有一些技术细节不太明白，想请教一下：

你们提到的“去中心化桥”是通过链下验证的方式进行的，请问你们的链下验证方式具体是什么？这种方式是中心化的还是去中心化的？如果是去中心化的，请问是通过什么技术手段实现的？
Nervos 的 RGB++ 已经实现了无桥方案，请问你们的有桥方案和 RGB++ 相比，有哪些相同点和不同点？
期待你们的解答，谢谢！

crookednervosness · December 19, 2024, 11:24am

Very well said. I’m not a bridge fan but there is something different about this one as well as the team behind it. It’s not some horrible Meme project with their hands out or strangers wandering in and trying to pull a fast one. Even listening to him talk last night at the foundations ‘holiday Stream’ was very impressive and a breath of fresh air. He understands the tech, he understands POW, and Ergo are one of the most aligned projects with CKB I’ve come across technology wise and decentralisation wise. You can see the team have a lot of experience, clout and are dedicated to mingling with our community and improving their services. A network cannot just survive with RGB++ , relying on only one system and the networking in one direction is a limited scope to have.

knmo · December 19, 2024, 12:46pm

ERG would like to see a connection in favor of the RSN token. Their modular structure is a playground, potentially interesting for UTXO experiments. The Ergo gnomes have certainly already heard of CKB and do not need to be made aware of it by such a bridge.

I am no Nervos lightweight and would be very surprised if funds were to flow to this association. I have to express skepticism here for the sake of my good conscience and, to be clear, I would question the sense of financial support! Nervos Network has evolved and has not stood still. But perhaps a bridge can be built to new technology.

matt.bit · December 19, 2024, 1:27pm

i don’t think you really understand what would go into doing this. As far as I know there aren’t any channel projects on top of Ergo at the moment, so that would be a project, then connecting with Fiber channels would be another project. It’s a great goal to keep in mind but in measuring how actionable the idea is, connecting Ergo to Fiber isn’t comparable to connecting CKB to Rosen bridge

neon.bit · December 19, 2024, 2:17pm

It’s good to see efforts to expand CKB’s reach and access to other communities on multiple fronts. I don’t believe this dilutes the efforts of other projects in the ecosystem, in fact I believe multipolarity will have a synergising effect of boosting awareness and collaboration in the wider space.

knmo · December 19, 2024, 3:26pm

ErgoScript is built on Sigma Protocols (or Σ-protocols) and its design is derived from Scala. It should be expressive enough for channels, but special features such as the Storage Rent protocol and its effects must also be considered; specifically, a time-lock-contract would have to ensure what actually happens after four years. If these special consensus rules still apply. Yes, i don’t really understand what would go into doing this.

phroi · December 19, 2024, 9:35pm

None of us really does. It would be great if any of the Fiber Creators could pitch in and help us understand this better.

That said, I have a mental representation on how things should work with Fiber, UTXO Stack and Rosen Bridge, so I’ll express my opinion based on these. If someone is better informed, feel free to correct me

TLDR: Fiber Network and Rosen Bridge are not mutually exclusive, instead they complement each other.

For example, say we want to represent assets from other chains on Nervos L1, for example BTC, then Fiber cannot help us. That’s why UTXO Stack uses ccBTC (still true?). Also we cannot represent BTC on Nervos L1 with RGB++.

In my opinion this bridge offers us opportunities on multiple levels:

All wrapped assets become easily available on Fiber. (This vastly increases the utility of Fiber as it becomes the Lightning of all networks connected through the Rosen Bridge.)
All wrapped assets are easily redeemable into their native assets. (This is a great improvement over centralized custodian services where only authorized entities can redeem to native assets, like ccBTC.)
As @neon.bit and @crookednervosness pointed out: multipolarity will have a synergising effect of boosting awareness and collaboration in the wider space. (In layman terms: free marketing for being one of the first chains to join the Rosen Bridge, a cool decentralized tech hailed to be the next step in bridges evolution.)
6,001,500 CKB ~ 80k USD (which by now is more like 60k USD) may seem a lot, but in the big picture it is nothing, especially considering the developer costs and the aforement opportunities.

Love & Peace, Phroi

woodbury.bit · December 20, 2024, 12:45am

Hello, I have a different opinion regarding your fourth point.

There is an old Chinese saying: “A dike of a thousand miles can be destroyed by an ant’s nest.” In China’s economic development, we have taken many wrong paths. One such example, which aligns with your fourth point, is frequently cited in MBA courses at major engineering universities in China as a classic negative case: the “pepper sprinkling” approach to project budgeting. This approach involves spreading small amounts of funding across numerous projects, which not only disperses focus but also wastes valuable resources.

Typical failed examples include China’s 863 Program and Spark Program in the 1980s and 1990s. These projects failed due to scattered budgets, lack of focus, and insufficient in-depth research, ultimately wasting significant amounts of funding. It was only later that China learned from these lessons and adopted the correct path of concentrating resources on key and core projects with proper budget planning.

In the field of project budgeting, there is a widely recognized “Common Knowledge”: In the initial stages of a project, multiple technical solutions should be thoroughly evaluated and compared, with detailed technical studies conducted. Resources should then be concentrated on key and core projects. This strategy maximizes resource efficiency and improves the likelihood of project success.

Therefore, I hope to see more technical evaluations and analyses in this discussion, rather than simplistic “snap decisions” followed by a lack of accountability. This forum is filled with talented blockchain professionals, and it is in-depth technical arguments that we hope to see most.

I hope this perspective can inspire further discussion. Thank you for your contribution, and I wish you all the best!

你好，我对你的第四点观点持不同意见。

中国有句古话：“千里之堤，毁于蚁穴。” 在中国经济发展过程中，我们走过许多错误的道路。其中，你提到的第四点观点，正是中国各大工程类重点院校MBA课程中常被提及的反面案例——“撒胡椒面”式的工程预算投资。这种做法通过小额资金分散部署大量项目，不仅导致精力分散，更浪费了宝贵的资源。

典型失败案例包括：中国在上世纪80年代和90年代的863计划和星火计划。这些项目由于预算分散、缺乏聚焦和深度研究，最终全面失败，浪费了巨额资金。直到后来，中国才总结经验教训，走上了集中资源于核心项目、合理规划预算的正确道路。

在工程预算领域，有一个普遍共识（Common Knowledge）：在项目初期，应充分论证和比较多种技术方案，深入研究技术细节，随后将资源集中投入重点和核心项目。这样的策略能够最大化资源的效用，并提升项目的成功概率。

因此，我希望在讨论中看到更多技术上的论证和分析，而不是“拍脑门决策、拍屁股走人”式的简单操作。这个论坛聚集了大量区块链领域的技术精英，深入的技术论证才是我们最希望看到的内容。

希望这一观点能引发更多的思考。感谢你的分享！

matt.bit · December 20, 2024, 1:02am

I do think some due diligence is necessary on your part. We are waiting for the Rosen team to respond about the differences between RGB++ and Rosen but it should be apparent to someone with the kind of investment in this decision that you display.

Simply put, RGB++ allows a native currency (BTC for example) to be traded for assets on another chain trustlessly but doesn’t allow BTC to be used as a token in applications on another chain. It also doesn’t allow for CKB to be used on other chains. Rosen bridge does facilitate both of these use cases.

Competing implementations would be a simple multi-sig bridge, like Force Bridge, or more innovative solutions like BitVM. There are not many variations of bridge design beyond technical marketing

We have some time before the coin vote, I’m glad that this kind of analysis could make you feel better about the idea

woodbury.bit · December 20, 2024, 2:35am

matt.bit:

I do think some due diligence is necessary on your part. We are waiting for the Rosen team to respond about the differences between RGB++ and Rosen but it should be apparent to someone with the kind of investment in this decision that you display.

Simply put, RGB++ allows a native currency (BTC for example) to be traded for assets on another chain trustlessly but doesn’t allow BTC to be used as a token in applications on another chain. It also doesn’t allow for CKB to be used on other chains. Rosen bridge does facilitate both of these use cases.

Competing implementations would be a simple multi-sig bridge, like Force Bridge, or more innovative solutions like BitVM. There are not many variations of bridge design beyond technical marketing

We have some time before the coin vote, I’m glad that this kind of analysis could make you feel better about the idea

Thank you for understanding my concerns. I hope we can engage in more in-depth discussions on technical feasibility. Although I am not an expert in the blockchain field, this forum gathers many top industry experts, which makes me very excited about the prospect of such discussions.

Over the past year, CKB and RGB++ have provided me with a wealth of foundational knowledge about blockchain. This includes technical video explanations released by CKB about RGB++ homomorphic binding, in-depth analyses of protocol differences, and the recent technical presentations at the CKCON conference. These resources have not only deepened my understanding of blockchain technology but also strengthened my confidence in CKB’s trustless cross-chain scaling solutions for the entire blockchain industry.

Given this background, I strongly hope that all proposals can include detailed and thorough assessments of technical feasibility. Thank you again for your understanding.

感谢你理解我的关注点。我希望能够围绕技术可行性展开更充分的讨论。虽然我并不是区块链领域的专家，但这个论坛聚集了许多行业顶尖的技术专家，这让我对深入探讨充满期待。

在过去的一年里，CKB 和 RGB++ 带来了大量区块链基础知识的普及，包括 CKB 发布的关于 RGB++ 同构绑定的技术视频讲解、各类协议差异的深入分析，以及最近 CKCON 会议中的技术演讲。这些内容不仅帮助我逐步加深了对区块链技术的理解，也让我对 CKB 提出的全区块链行业无桥跨链扩容解决方案充满信心。

基于这些背景，我更加希望所有的提案能够在技术可行性方面进行详细而深入的论证。再次感谢你的理解。

phroi · December 20, 2024, 8:28am

Alright, I could say that in past years CKB has been my daily bread as I single-handedly developed and launched iCKB, a project with non trivial technical uncertainties. For this work I received funding from the Foundation and Community DAO. I also presented iCKB at the CKCON. Feel free to bless iCKB with your valued time

I studied the RGB++ protocol too, finding all its gotchas and there are quite a few, well hidden of course. For example in very particular conditions the RGB++ protocol has issues with reorgs. Also you cannot build AMMs with RGB++ as CKB smart contracts cannot be represented on BTC. Also you cannot wrap BTC into a wrapped-BTC with RGB++ for the very same reasons. And the list goes on…

The RGB++ protocol, while being a brilliant idea, has significant restrictions on its use-cases and that’s why we are not seeing a broader adoption.

I’m sorry about your loss. That said, if we follow you logic and apply fairly to any technical innovation on Nervos, then iCKB, RGB++, Fiber… would not have happened.

Also you are comparing a space program (high technical uncertainties like the aforementioned projects) with a low technical uncertainties integration, at high level:

Rosen Bridge runs on well known primitives.
Rosen Bridge does not require validation logic on the Nervos side as the validation fully resides on Ergo.
What resides on the Nervos side is multisig wallets, standard xUDT Owner Scripts and what’s needed to provide oracles for the validation on Ergo. All this happens in the most decentralized way possible.

Agreed @woodbury.bit, the following statement is weak when asking for the allocation of 8M CKB on Community DAO:

As the proposal in its current iteration is not eligible for a Metaforo vote as @JackyLHH can confirm:

@Armeanio, since you already conducted a preliminary technical review, it would put our minds at ease if you could explain:

What this preliminary technical review consisted of? What were you looking for?
What are the results? Why is Nervos feasible?
What are the next investigation steps if this proposal goes through? What do you need to investigate more deeply?
What are the milestones details? What are the timeline, costs, and deliverables for each stage? (An approximation is fine)

Love & Peace, Phroi