META: Open Discussion about grant funding

Edit #2: After being informed about the current process for DAO proposals and milestones, I’m going to open a different post for dicussion based on the more current meta. Much of what is stated here is still good food for thought, but I’m going to basically launch a V2 of the discussion tomorrow.

Edit: The “act first, grant later” has apparently been used a lot, so apologies there. I’m going to make edits to cut down on what has already been accomplished within the meta, and refocus the discussion towards my proposed points of improvement

Good day to the Nervos DAO enthusiasts, today I was inspired to open a discussion for feedback on my idea for risk management regarding grant funding.

(Personal/Community introdction): For context, my name is William. I have been a prior grant recipient, but I admittedly did not succeed or properly execute the proposal. While this was unfortunate for both the community and myself, I have reflected on my failures and come to terms with it. I have consciously decided to no longer make any grant requests for the foreseable future, in order to improve my business competence elsewhere. But the actual reason I am opening this discussion is to use my failures as a lesson on how NOT to aprrove grants, and hopefully inspire better rules and regulations surrounding risk management for DAO funds.

My idea is not completely realistic due to how complicated and faulty the implementation would be in practice, but I believe the foundational thesis has merit for feedback, consideration and discussion. So without further delay, here is my idea:

This is a generalizeable framework for regulating DAO grants to mitigate the risk of negative returns on investment (the project doesn’t create a positive sum of value for the ecosystem).
The general ideas are twofold. Firstly, there could be potential improvements on how and when the funds are distributed. I got this idea from Tannr and Kevin Wang’s project Khalani, which is an intent centric project for smart contract design. This design focuses on the results of a transaction rather than the process of reaching the results. Traditionally, smart contracts are executed at the start; like the classic vending machine metaphor, you put money into the machine, and the machine then gives you the desired snack or outcome. With intents, the smart contract executes based on the results. This means that the traditional method of smart contracting gets flipped on its head, so instead of the first metaphor, you get something like this: You prove to the machine that you have the money, the machine then gives you the snack and proves that it did, now you pay the vending machine because the desired outcome is verified. @jm9k gave me a better version of this example recently: What an intent is really like is you announce publicly that you want a certain snack, and anyone in the world can compete to deliver that outcome and get paid, rather than a specific vending machine. The main point I want to emphasize is that this model is centered around the outcome. And my idea was to think about the DAO proposal and grant process in a similar way. But there are multiple models that I can derive from this abstraction:

  1. You make a proposal, the DAO agrees to fund it IF you are able to deliver on certain outcomes. The problem is that nobody will be able to execute the proposal without the funds.

There are multiple quasi solutions to this dilemma:

  • Milestones: Let’s say we want them to commit to this proposal with a strong signal of commitment. Assume it’s a Defi project. Instead of giving the funds upfront, or dolling them out in steps, they stake their time and effort by starting the project, and doll out pieces of the funding as they hit goals. This makes the recipient sink their human capital of time, talent, and enegy into the proposal, which might help sidestep the dilemma. And it also shows a sacrifice of energy to prevent a nothing at stake problem
  1. Raw staking: Recipient stakes CKB or stables to get approval, and the stake is returned upon completion of milestones. The details are tricky, such as “how much do they stake” or "how to weigh the stake in relation to the value of the deliverables. This needs more consideration clearly. The other problem is a lack of capital to stake. If someone has a good idea and can deliver, but they don’t have the money to stake, this becomes another dilemma. A potential solution could be advanced staking schemes such as delegated staking, where DAO members who believe in the project will delegate their stake, and receive a small compensation from the recipient for putting up the risk collateral for them. We could also consider quadratic staking, however this method is controversial so it may introduce more complexity or risks.
  2. Finally we could consider an initial freebie. Traditional upfront funding, but it’s only partial. This way they can fund themselves to hit the first milestone, and then it switches to a results based model. This would basically bootsrap them to solve the chicken and egg problem with results based funding

I don’t recognize any of the solutions to be ideal or even viable. These are more like brainstorming thoughts in order to get people thinking about how to solve the bootstrapping problem with results based funding.

Another possible deisgn for the risk management framework would be even more similar to intents: anyone makes proposals normally, but only expressing a desired outcome, but anyone can deliver on the proposal, and once the quantifiable outcome is met and verified, the winner gets the reward. This is much more like a bounty board, but instead of a project listing bounties, anyone can propose one, and the DAO approves or rejects them. I doubt this idea is novel, but it’s still interesting, eespecially if we can optimize the validation, make it more autonomous, efficient, and reliable. The problem with validation is that it’s either slow because humans need to verify or dispute outcomes, or it is automated, but the automotons aren;t flexible enough to consider the nuance of non-deterministic outcomes. however, I recently discovered a project that is working on consensus for non-deterministic outcomes called “commit-reveal Pairwise Comparisons”

Anyway, these are my thoughts on how to improve efficiency, trust, decentralization, modularity, automation, and success of DAO proposals. I don’t believe that these ideas are ready for implementation. I just think as off-chain data and consensus becomes more reliable and sophisticated, while maintaining fault tolerance, and DAO governance also gains sophistication, granularity, efficiency, and reliability, these concepts may become valuable in the future.

Please provide feedback and criticism. I don’t assume that these ideas are bullet-proof. This was more a means to an end to open a discussion around risk management, inspired by blokchain technology.

-Sincerely, Will

2 Likes

This is a model that is used fairly often. Someone has to take the first step, and that is typically the grant issuer. The CKB Community Fund DAO also requires milestones for payout on grants larger than $10k USD to help ensure progress is made.

I observed during previous cycles that this form of result assurance is usually a requirement for many developers. If they receive all of the funding up front, the project does not get completed.

One of the problems with bounty boards is that the prize is typically small, but the time commitment is large. Development of anything quality that is mainnet ready will likely take weeks to months. If two devs work on the same project at the same time, one of them is going to put in a lot of work and not get paid.

I think there may be merit to a proposal system similar to what you are suggesting, but more incentives need to be added. Say that anyone can propose an idea, but there is a fee for submission in the form of a processing fee. This fee is paid to the DAO committee to review it, and it is paid back with an additional reward if the idea is used and completed. The DAO committee sets target budget and posts it publicly for developers to apply to. Dev teams can apply with bids that are higher or lower than the target, and the DAO committee selects a single team to proceed.

3 Likes

I’m taking your feedback to get synched up with the current meta around the DAO. I’m going to announce some edits to this post to make it more useful and relevant to the evolving meta. I think the problems with bounties is actually an opportunity for the DAO to receive a solution. If the relationship between cost and benefit is not viable for market making in bounties, some R&D into solving this would increase returns and eliminate cost. So I would open the conversation to the public about this, and try to motivate community members to give it some thought. I will do some research of my own as well for an existing solution in other markets.

To your second point, yes the incentives need solid structure first. But yes, I think the concept of an anti spam fee could be a revenue source and a costliness for sustainability. This DAO is sophisticated as is. I think some of these incentives being codified into the rules would go a long way in increasing productivity.

Edit: Since the milestones generally exist for grants, I’m going to construct a new post with more current meta awareness, and focus on how to refine this and improve incentives for both parties

2 Likes