不过说实话，从使用和用户角度来说，JOYID的这个备份助记词的功能好像有些是退化了，在用户这里一般的理解是我花了钱是想省事呢，现在是花了钱之后我得自己去备份助记词，然后还得了解助记词，还不能泄露，这样又退回到普通钱包的使用和教育，PASSKEY钱包的初衷和优势也没有了，还花了钱，这比普通钱包没有啥有优势的地方了反倒。原来估计好多人想的助记词这个功能上了之后是对普通钱包的支持，这样JOYID拓展到一个PASSKEY和普通钱包都支持的通用型钱包，用户可以做出选择，我想这样理解的小伙伴应该不在少数。。现在看来还是对JOYID理解不够，但是退一步站在用户的使用角度，如果能把付费之后我啥也不用管了，当有一天我一不小心误删了PASSKEY，我还有机会找回，这样的付费也许才是有意义的，不知道JOYID能不能优化一下：付费统一到一起（之前好像哪里也有一次付费的地方），不必对用户展示太多实现上的细节，中间的过程不管，最终的目标是用户付完费后，我啥也不用管了，不要把助记词这些东西再展现给用户，全部由系统或合约处理，当用户出现失误或误操作时，JOYID负责帮用户找到恢复的方法，我觉得这种升级是用户喜欢的。
using Passkey you add more devices to be able to recover the assets
Hi Yibin, I’m not sure if I understand everything your saying correctly due to the translation, but a few points.
Joyid already offers excellent backup and recovery options, so the backup phrase is an extra option and isn’t necessarily required.
If your Passkey is synced to your Google/iCloud account, then your account is already reasonably safe, other than in rare instances where the user might delete either their Passkey. (or even their whole cloud account, which I’ve seen). In this case the backup phrase is probably recommended for the 1% chance your Passkey or cloud account is accidentally deleted.
If the user has an account that is synced to their cloud account and has also upgraded and added another device that is synced to the opposing cloud account (now they have Passkey synced to both Google and iCloud) then their account is now safe under nearly any possible scenario. In this case the backup phrase is probably not necessary.
But there’s also other combinations of backup options as well, such as:
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Synced to one cloud account and a device-bound Passkey has been added. In this case, if the synced Passkey has been deleted, then the account will still be available on the device-bound Passkey device as long as that device is still accessible.
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Synced to 2 (or more) cloud accounts of the same platform (2 different Google or 2 different iCloud accounts)
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A device-bound Passkey device has been added to another device-bound Passkey device. In this case there is no cloud backup, but as long as at least one of the devices that holds the account is always accessible, then the Joyid account is also always accessible.
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Then there is the ultimate combination of recovery options, which is Passkey synced to both Google and iCloud accounts as well as a device-bound Passkey device. In this case I can’t think of any scenario where a user would ever lose access to their Joyid account, but obviously this isnt an option for everyone.
But there are a number of users that aren’t able to or maybe they just don’t want to backup their Passkeys to a cloud account. They also might not have access to a second device to add as a recovery option. So in these cases the backup phrase feature is the perfect solution, as they can still use Joyid and in the case that they break or lose their device, or they accidentally deleted the Passkey from that device, they will always be able to recover the account.
So IMO these new features are the missing piece to the puzzle when it comes to total, non-custodial wallet safety.
There is and always will be personal responsibility needed from the user to take the precautions they feel are necessary to protect themselves, but now every possible option is available.
Also, for users that have already upgraded their accounts, there is no extra cost to use the new backup phrase and private key export features, these are immediately available to them.
Also, for users that have already upgraded their accounts, there is no extra cost to use the new backup phrase and private key export features, these are immediately available to them.
从您的回复中我得到非常重要的一点，如果用户升级了账户，也就是说之前付费升级过了，那么在此处导出助记词时是不用额外再付费的对吧？此处的收费操作是针对如果用户没有做过账户升级而直接到此导出操作，那么需要支付一个合约的费用，如果用户在此支付了费用，那么当用户选择升级账户时应该也是不需要额外付费的，不知道我理解的对不？如果是这样，那的确是一个挺仔细和温馨的在用户角度的考虑。
不得不说有了助记词备份，对于老用户来说，才能达到完全的放心，因为他知道最坏的情况下，只要保存好助记词我的钱包就总是安全可恢复的，这是非常大的一个升级和进步！其实我想表达的问题是站在一个新用户或者比较小白的用户角度考虑的。
But there are a number of users that aren’t able to or maybe they just don’t want to backup their Passkeys to a cloud account. They also might not have access to a second device to add as a recovery option. So in these cases the backup phrase feature is the perfect solution, as they can still use Joyid and in the case that they break or lose their device, or they accidentally deleted the Passkey from that device, they will always be able to recover the account.
其实助记词的备份用例也主要也就是针对这种情况下的，而这种情况应该还是比较大的可能的，尤其对于新用户，有可能他没有那么多可用的设备来做备份，有可能他不会云备份操作或者对云备份也知之甚少，或者是有人不愿意使用云出于隐私等考虑，而新用户对钱包和PASSKEY的概念也不是太了解，但清楚缓存等还是容易发生的，设备卡顿优化清理垃圾时顺路就做完了，而新用户可能根本没有意识到可能导致的情况和后果，这些其实是最普遍的情况而不是极少数。。
原来是有一个比较慵懒的想法，就是JOYID有一个安全升级的按钮，用户点完之后只需要验证指纹然后付费，等待系统或链上确认之后，安全升级这块显示绿色或安全保护，用户无需额外过多的操作，这样就可以完全放心了（包括极端少见的情况和可能的操作失误的情况，用户知道我做了安全升级即便最坏的情况我也是可以找回或者恢复我的钱包的），中间所有可能的情况是不需要用户考虑的，因为罗列所有这些可能的情况已经是假设用户有相当的认知了，实际上用户可能没有，当然我只是一种假想，并不一定非得基于助记词导出，我只是站在一个新用户和对钱包对PASSKEY包括助记词这些概念认知比较一般的用户的角度做出的一个比较理想化的对JOYID的一个功能假想，但并不知道容不容易实现？。。
一根大大的
对JOYID的期望值可能比较大哦，既想让其做到通用又想让其做到完全无门槛接入普通用户，毕竟现在CKB上确实没有一款真正能打的钱包在拓展应用和消费级层面，其实难度是相当大的，这点我心里是有数的，然而钱包是WEB3流量的入口，自己不做到破圈就容易被别人卡脖子哈。。所以钱包是矛是利器，所以难免对JOYID有了很高的期待！
Hi Yibin, really sorry for not replying to you sooner.
“从您的回复中我得到非常重要的一点，如果用户升级了账户，也就是说之前付费升级过了，那么在此处导出助记词时是不用额外再付费的对吧？此处的收费操作是针对如果用户没有做过账户升级而直接到此导出操作，那么需要支付一个合约的费用，如果用户在此支付了费用，那么当用户选择升级账户时应该也是不需要额外付费的，不知道我理解的对不？如果是这样，那的确是一个挺仔细和温馨的在用户角度的考虑.”
Yes, this is right. When a user upgrades their account, the Account Abstraction Cota Cell is created and they can take advantage of all current as well as future features.
Also, It’s important to note here, that this ‘fee payment’ is a result of CKBs architecture and tokenomics and not something that Joyid is charging users to earn revenue.
“其实助记词的备份用例也主要也就是针对这种情况下的，而这种情况应该还是比较大的可能的，尤其对于新用户，有可能他没有那么多可用的设备来做备份，有可能他不会云备份操作或者对云备份也知之甚少，或者是有人不愿意使用云出于隐私等考虑，而新用户对钱包和PASSKEY的概念也不是太了解，但清楚缓存等还是容易发生的，设备卡顿优化清理垃圾时顺路就做完了，而新用户可能根本没有意识到可能导致的情况和后果，这些其实是最普遍的情况而不是极少数。。 “
I think most people are happy to backup their Passkeys to their cloud account if their device allows this. But there are definitely some people who don’t feel comfortable relying on Google or Apple to safely store and protect their wallets and I totally respect their views on this.
In most cases, syncing the Passkey to the users cloud account is the default option and there is no requirement for the user to understand how to do this, it is all automatic. If a user doesn’t want to sync their Passkeys, then they have to take the action and ‘untick’ the box, so it is their choice.
But in cases where the device just isn’t capable of syncing Passkeys, then there is no other option but to create the account as a ‘non-Passkey’ or ‘Device-bound Passkey’ account.
This isn’t Joyid’s fault, it is a device issue and is just a consequence of Joyid being such a specific technology that it relies on the device being capable of using this specific technology…
But even though these types of accounts are very risky, they are allowed to be created because the users that can’t or don’t want to backup their Passkeys to the cloud should still be allowed to use Joyid. But they are completely made aware of the risks during the account creation as well as every time they open their wallet, they are encouraged to add a second device as a recovery option, so I don’t think where you say this “而新用户可能根本没有意识到可能导致的情况和后果，这些其实是最普遍的情况而不是极少数 “ is accurate.
“原来是有一个比较慵懒的想法，就是JOYID有一个安全升级的按钮，用户点完之后只需要验证指纹然后付费，等待系统或链上确认之后，安全升级这块显示绿色或安全保护，用户无需额外过多的操作，这样就可以完全放心了（包括极端少见的情况和可能的操作失误的情况，用户知道我做了安全升级即便最坏的情况我也是可以找回或者恢复我的钱包的），中间所有可能的情况是不需要用户考虑的，因为罗列所有这些可能的情况已经是假设用户有相当的认知了，实际上用户可能没有，当然我只是一种假想，并不一定非得基于助记词导出，我只是站在一个新用户和对钱包对PASSKEY包括助记词这些概念认知比较一般的用户的角度做出的一个比较理想化的对JOYID的一个功能假想，但并不知道容不容易实现？。。 “
While this sounds great and is maybe what new people to crypto would like, I don’t think there is anyway to do this in a decentralised, non-custodial way.
This sounds like what people would expect from your bank where they have full access to your accounts. But how can this possibly be done without the people that have the ability to help you recover your account, not also having the ability to steal your assets?
I agree with all this and I think Joyid, for most users is an excellent experience, but like I said in my first post, there will always be a degree of personal responsibility for anyone involved in crypto, this just can’t be avoided imo.
BTW have you seen the new Coinbase Passkey wallet?
I used it breifly the other day and it doesn’t seem to have any recovery options other than syncing the Passkey to the users cloud account. So I think it would probalby have all same issues Joyid has with certain device compatibility, but without any of the other options Joyid offers their users.
Thank you Yeti！
非常感谢您的耐心解答。
我理解，有些理想化的想法在实现上是不太现实的。。
在保护用户钱包的安全这块，Joyid已然考虑的比其他PASSKEY钱包要多，并且做的非常棒！
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No worries buddy!
Also, keep an eye on the Joyid Progress Board and you will see all of the major developments the team are working on. (scroll down to the bottom for the Chinese version)
I just checked it then and there’s some brand new stuff , including a solution for Windows PC users which lots of people have been wanting!