(DIS) Meta-rule change: Implement staged payments for proposals with a budget exceeding $10,000|对预算超过$10000的提案实行分阶段付款

The poll has been started, please come and cast your votes:
https://dao.ckb.community/thread/vot-meta-rule-change-implement-staged-payments-for-proposals-with-a-budget-exceeding-10-000-10000-44725

投票现已启动,请前往投票:
https://dao.ckb.community/thread/vot-meta-rule-change-implement-staged-payments-for-proposals-with-a-budget-exceeding-10-000-10000-44725

TL;DR

为了降低资风险并提供更好的监督,提议对大额预算的提案采取分期付款的措施。本方案包括:

  • 设定大额预算阈值为 $10,000
  • 启动资金的拨款上限,为提案预算的20%,且不超过$10,000。
  • 在提案实施过程中,提案发起人需向社区展示提案的进展,以确定后续支付的必要性。

该方案可控制资金风险、激励和验收提案发起人,并提高透明度和监督。

TL;DR

To mitigate funding risks and provide better oversight, it is proposed to implement staged payments for large budget proposals. The solution includes setting the threshold for large budgets as $10000, capping the initial funding at 20% of the budget or $10000, and requiring proposal creators to demonstrate progress to determine subsequent payments.

This approach helps control funding risks, incentivize and evaluate proposal creators, and enhance transparency and oversight.

Background

With the improvement of CKB’s underlying infrastructure, it is time to invite more people to join and build the CKB ecosystem. The CKB Community Fund DAO (CCFD) was established to encourage community members to propose projects beneficial to the CKB ecosystem and apply for funding to actively implement them, thereby promoting the prosperity of the CKB ecosystem. However, large budget proposals may introduce uncontrollable risks. In light of this, several community members have suggested implementing staged payments for large budgets to protect the CCFD and reduce funding risks.

Problem Statement

When a proposal’s budget is substantial, how can funds be disbursed to the proposer to incentivize progress while allowing the community to effectively monitor and reduce potential risks associated with fund usage?

Proposed Solution

Establishing a Threshold for Large Budgets

Recommendation: Determine the threshold for large budgets (T) through community voting, with suggested values of $5000, $8000, or $10000. When the requested budget (B) exceeds or equals the threshold, it is considered a large budget proposal.

The feedback collected through various community channels indicates that a threshold of $10,000 for a large budget is more favored. For detailed results, please refer to: (DIS) Meta-rule change: Implement staged payments for proposals with a budget exceeding $10,000|对预算超过$10000的提案实行分阶段付款 - #15 by yixiu.ckbfans.bit.

Staged Payments for Large Budgets

If the community voting results show majority support for the threshold value (T) for large budgets and B > T, the following staged payment approach is suggested:

  1. Budgets exceeding T will be divided into multiple stages or timeframes for disbursement. The maximum limit for initial funding (M) is proposed to be 20% of the budget, not exceeding T. For example, T = $10,000:
  • If B = $12,000, M = B * 20% = $2,400
  • If B = $50,000, M = T = B * 20% = $10,000
  • If B = $60,000, B * 20% = $12,000 > T, then M = T = $10,000.
  1. Apart from the initial funding, subsequent payments will be determined based on specific milestones or goals. Proposals should clearly outline the estimated timeline, costs, and deliverables for each stage, with evaluations and confirmations conducted at the end of each stage.
  2. Upon receiving funding, proposal owners must regularly update the community on project progress and submit necessary progress reports at the end of each payment stage. Reports should include information on project milestones, goal achievement, and fund utilization, allowing the community to review and confirm the necessity of subsequent payments.
  3. Given the delayed timeline and multiple payments involved in staged payments, proposal owners are encouraged to consider potential risk factors in their budget plans and provide corresponding mitigation measures to ensure project sustainability and successful implementation.

Benefits of this arrangement include:

  1. Risk control: By allocating only a portion of the requested budget as an initial payment, funding risks can be mitigated. The community provides partial support for project initiation while retaining the remaining funds to ensure project progress.
  2. Incentivization and validation: Staged payments serve as an incentive and validation mechanism, releasing subsequent payments only when reasonable progress is made during the initial project stages and specific conditions are met.
  3. Transparency and oversight: Clearly defining rules and conditions for the initial payment ensures the community has a clear understanding of and can supervise fund usage. This promotes fair and accountable distribution and utilization of funds.

Exceptional Cases

Regardless of the chosen threshold value (T), there may be instances where individuals set their proposal budget (B) as T-1 to avoid triggering large budget requirements. However, such cases will draw attention from the community, raising concerns about the proposal’s budget justification. As the CKB Community Fund DAO operates as a reputation system, maintaining a good reputation increases the likelihood of proposal approval. Proposal owners should avoid submitting borderline budget proposals to safeguard their reputations.


背景

时至今日,在核心团队的努力下,CKB 的底层基础设施已经逐渐趋于完善,现在是时候邀请更多人来加入和建设CKB生态了。CKB Community Fund DAO(CCFD)就是在这样的背景下诞生的,鼓励社区成员发起对 CKB 生态有帮助的提案来申请一些拨款,并积极落实实施,以促进CKB生态的繁荣。

众所周知,对于提案的发起者来说,一次性收到所申请的拨款是最好的。但是对于社区来说,一次性进行大额的拨款可能会带来不可控的风险,在最近的提案中,出于对CCFD的保护,多位社区成员对大额预算的资金拨款方式提出了分期拨款的建议。

问题定义

当提案预算过大时,该如何给提案者拨款,既能激励提案者积极地推进提案的进展,又可以让社区更及时有效地监督,从而降低资金使用的潜在风险。

解决方案

确定大额预算的阈值

大额预算的阈值(Threshold for Large Budgets,以下简称T)这个值如果太小或者太大都不利于CKB Community Fund DAO的发展,推荐在以下几个值中,由社区投票确定大额预算的阈值:

大额预算的分期付款措施

在社区投票结果显示更多的人支持大额预算的阈值为T,且B>T时,走分期付款的措施,具体如下:

  1. 预算超过T的提案将被分为多个阶段或时间段进行支付。其中,启动资金拨款的上限(Maximum Limit for Initial Funding,以下简称M)为预算的20%且不超过T,也就是说:当提案预算的20%超过T时,启动资金拨款金额为T。举例说明,T = $10,000:
    1. 如果B = $12,000,M = B*20% = $2,400
    2. 如果 B =$50,000, M = T = B*20% = $10,000
    3. 如果 B =$60,000,因为 B*20% = $12,000 > T,所以 M = T = $10,000。
  2. 除了启动资金之外,后续每个阶段的支付金额将依据特定的里程碑或达成的目标来确定。这些里程碑和目标需在提案中明确列出,包括每个阶段的预计时间、费用和成果等信息,并在每个阶段结束时进行评估和确认。
  3. 提案获得拨款之后,需定期向社区公布项目的最新进展,并且在每个支付阶段结束时,提案负责人需要提交必要的成果报告,这些报告可以包括项目的进展、目标达成情况、资金使用情况等信息,以便社区能够对项目进行审核并确认后续资金支付的必要性。
  4. 由于分期支付涉及时间延迟和多次支付,建议提案负责人在预算计划中考虑潜在的风险因素,并提供相应的应对措施,以确保项目的可持续性和成功实施。

这样的安排有几个优点:

  1. 风险控制:通过设定首期付款金额为提案预算的一小部分,可以降低资金风险。这样,社区可以先支付一部分款项以支持项目启动,同时保留余下的资金以确保项目的顺利进行。
  2. 激励和验收:分期付款可以作为对提案负责人的激励和验证机制。只有在项目的初始阶段取得合理进展并满足特定条件时,后续付款才会陆续释放。
  3. 透明度和监督:确定首期付款金额的规则和条件将在提案中明确说明,确保社区对资金的使用有清晰的了解和监督。这有助于确保资金的合理分配和使用。

异常情况

无论T的值定义为多少,都可能会有人将自己提案的预算B设置为T-1,使得提案在不触发大额预算的情况下可能一次性获得拨款。但这种情况下一定会引起社区的注意,对提案预算的合理性将被社区怀疑,CKB Community Fund DAO 也是一个声誉系统,拥有更好的声誉有利于提案的通过,提案者应避免提这种预算“擦边”的提案而影响了自己的声誉。


37 Likes

thank you @yixiu.ckbfans.bit for this proposal, I’ve expressed my support.

I do not know exactly the right parameters for this, but I do know that we have seen the concern this is intended to address originate from both the western community (HuntingNFT) and eastern community (CKB textbook) now.

2 Likes

Yes, if this parameter is set too small, it will dampen the enthusiasm for proposals. If set too large, it loses the purpose of risk control. The suggested range of $5000-$10000 in the proposal is precisely based on this consideration. The final value of this parameter will be determined by the community.


是的,这个参数如果设置得太小,会抑制提案的积极性;如果设置得太大,就失去了风险管控的意义,提案里给出了$5000-$10000的建议范围正是出于这个原因考虑。这个参数最终是多少,让社区来确定。

3 Likes

我倾向于将大额预算阈值设置为 $10000。
I prefer to set the threshold for large budgets (T) as $10000.

@JackyLHH just reminded me that modifying the meta-rule requires a support rate of 67%. Taking into account the progress of this proposal, we will discuss in this thread the optimal value for setting this parameter, and ultimately conduct a vote to gather support or opposition to this meta-rule change proposal during the voting phase.
刚才Jacky提醒了我,元规则的修改需要67%的支持率,考虑到该提案的推进,我们将在本讨论贴中讨论该参数设置为多大更好,并最终在投票环节对本元规则修改的提案进行支持和反对的投票。

3 Likes

I agree with this in general, but there’s one thing I’d like to bring up.

When someone requests and receives the funding, they need to be confident that they will receive the $USD value they have asked for and at the agreed intervals.

This means the DAO takes on the risk of the price of CKB dropping and having to end up paying more CKB than was originally requested. Of course this works in the opposite direction as well if the price goes up, the DAO benefits by paying out less CKB.

Would it be a good idea to convert at least a portion of any approved amount to a stable coin to be held in a separate wallet?

This might not be a major issue for the DAO at the current price as the risk is probably worth taking to leave everything in CKB, but it could become a problem during/after a bull market when there could be big fluctuations in price.


我想我总体上同意这一点,但有一件事我想提出来。

当有人请求并收到资金时,他们需要确信他们将收到他们所要求的美元价值,并在商定的时间间隔内收到。

这意味着DAO承担了CKB价格下跌的风险,并且最终不得不支付比最初要求的更多CKB。 当然,这也是反过来的,如果价格上涨,DAO通过支付更少的CKB而获益。

将任何批准的金额中的至少一部分转换为稳定的硬币,存放在一个单独的钱包中,这是否是一个好主意?

在目前的价格下,这可能不是DAO的主要问题,因为把所有东西都留在CKB中的风险可能值得承担,但在牛市中,这将成为一个问题。

In general I agree with the proposal. The budget thresholds also seem reasonable to me.

As a non-binding consultation, it might be interesting to do surveys in the communities (Nervos Nation, CKB fans, etc). It would be a good way to encourage the community to participate in the meta-proposal and find out which is the most agreed upon option by the community.

3 Likes

Good idea. @neon.bit @ckbfans Could you please initiate a poll on Twitter to collect community feedback on the threshold for large budgets in relation to this proposal? Please ensure the following guidelines:

  1. Offer three options for users to select from $5000, $8000, and $10000.
  2. Set the duration of the poll to 5 days.

@neon.bit @ckbfans 你们可以在推特上针对这个提案的背景,发起一个投票来收集社区对大额预算的阈值的期望值吗?注意:1、提供$5000、$8000和$10000三个选项让用户来选择;2、投票时长选择5天。

6 Likes

Will do this shortly. @yixiu.ckbfans.bit

Out of interest, if I understand this proposal correctly, proposal values > T (e.g. 10k) will be subject to milestones and segmented release of funds. Who is responsible for deciding whether progress has been satisfactory? Will it be the overseeing Committee, or a poll in the community?

2 Likes

Thanks. We conducted a poll on both the CKBFans Chinese community and Nervos Notion. One approach is to post the screenshots of the votes here. After aggregating the voting results, we will select the option with the highest support rate.

我们正在中文社区发起投票。明天将在这里向大家公布投票结果。
We are conducting a poll within the Chinese community and will announce the poll results here tomorrow.

1 Like

我倾向于将大额预算阈值设置为 $8,000
I prefer a large budget threshold of $8,000

Regarding the large budget threshold, we created the polls in multiple channels for your reference.

1.WeChat Subscription Account - CKBFans

2.CKBMeta Twitter

Regarding the large budget threshold, here are the polls I created in multiple channels for your reference.

1. Nervos CN Telegram

2. WeChat Subscription Account - 字节元 CKB

3. Twitter


P.S.

The poll result from Nervos Nation Telegram:

Summarizing the community channels mentioned above, we accumulated the votes for each option and obtained the following results:

$5000: 12 + 9 + 17 + 11 + 3 + 5 = 57 votes
$8000: 7 + 6 + 10 + 6 + 2 + 2 = 33 votes
$10000: 10 + 12 + 13 + 19 + 6 + 26 = 86 votes

Based on the feedback received, the option of $10000 as the threshold for a large budget is more popular. Therefore, we will create a poll on dao.ckb.community regarding this proposal. Thank you all for participating in this decision-making process.


汇总上述社区渠道,我们对同一个选项进行累加,得到如下结果:

$5000:12 + 9 + 17 + 11 + 3 + 5 = 57票
$8000:7 + 6 + 10 + 6 + 2 + 2 = 33 票
$10000:10 + 12 + 13 + 19 + 6 + 26 = 86票

根据反馈结果,$10000作为大额预算门槛更受欢迎,接下来我们将在dao.ckb.community 上就本提案发起一个投票,感谢大家参与这次抉择。

3 Likes

The poll has been started, please come and cast your votes:
https://dao.ckb.community/thread/vot-meta-rule-change-implement-staged-payments-for-proposals-with-a-budget-exceeding-10-000-10000-44725

投票现已启动,请前往投票:
https://dao.ckb.community/thread/vot-meta-rule-change-implement-staged-payments-for-proposals-with-a-budget-exceeding-10-000-10000-44725

1 Like

@yixiu.ckbfans.bit Just flagging up my question again in case you missed it:

Out of interest, if I understand this proposal correctly, proposal values > T (e.g. 10k) will be subject to milestones and segmented release of funds. Who is responsible for deciding whether progress has been satisfactory? Will it be the overseeing Committee, or a poll in the community?

And a follow up question:

What happens if the monthly expenditure of a project (for example a dev team) is greater than 10k? In that scenario, they would not be able to meet their monthly expenses due to insufficient release of funds, and as a result would not be able to demonstrate sufficient adherence to milestones or targets. I know it’s hypothetical, I’m mostly thinking about bigger projects or teams who might want to apply for grants.

Hi,@neon.bit , sorry for missing your prev message.

In China, there is an old saying: “As people do, so they will be judged.” It advises people to do good and avoid doing evil because we believe in the principle of reaping what we sow. In a decentralized organization, who plays the role of judgment? I believe it is the community, the people who aspire to see CKB thrive.

Honestly speaking, when it comes to DAO governance, we are still in the early stages and need to continuously explore and gain experience. It may involve stumbling and falling along the way before we find the governance methodology that suits our community.

Therefore, at this moment, I cannot provide a definitive answer to your question. However, based on my personal experience, I am willing to share some preliminary advice to proposers:

    1. Strive to do better in handling matters related to the proposal.
    1. Find ways to let more people see your efforts and the achievements you have made.

So, please don’t worry, just DO BETTER, MORE SEE. Believe that the majority of the community consists of intelligent individuals, and we will not let the hard work of dedicated proposers go to waste.


中国有句老话:“人在做天在看”,告诫人们要行善事别作恶,因为我们相信善有善报、恶有恶报。在一个去中心化的组织里,谁是天?我想应该是社区,是那些希望CKB越来越好的人。

说实话,关于DAO治理,我们还处于起步阶段,需要不断摸索经验,并且在这个过程中可能要不断摔跤之后,才会找到适合我们社区的治理方法论。

所以,此时此刻,我无法对你的问题给出明确的答案。不过从我自身的经验出发,我愿意分享给提案者一些基本的建议:

  • 1、竭尽所能把提案相关的事情做得更好
  • 2、想办法让越多人看到你们的努力与与之取得的成果。

所以,请不要担心,只要做得更好,并让越多人看到,相信社区里还是聪明人占大多数,我们不会让真正努力做贡献的提案者的汗水付诸东流。

Thanks for your reply @yixiu.ckbfans.bit. I agree with your post completely; my main concern is that we are introducing a rule (withold some funds in lieu of meeting milestones) but not clarifying the due process that would need to be followed for approval or rejection of subsequent release of funds. My view is that there does need to be more clarification here.

For example, we could say subsequent funds generally will be released by the committee as standard procedure, except in clear cases of misuse, or a significant portion of the community votes to discontinue (needs to be considered whether this is based on number of likes or a new dao vote)

1 Like